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	Comments on: Should Islam Seem Foreign in a Non-Muslim Society?	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Hafsa		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-275350</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hafsa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2016 00:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-275350</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26424&quot;&gt;Paul Bartlett&lt;/a&gt;.

Dear Paul, I was so sad to read your story. I know it&#039;s been a long time since you posted so I have no idea if you will ever see this but if you do please let us know how you are getting on, I really hope things are better for you now. May God be with you]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26424">Paul Bartlett</a>.</p>
<p>Dear Paul, I was so sad to read your story. I know it&#8217;s been a long time since you posted so I have no idea if you will ever see this but if you do please let us know how you are getting on, I really hope things are better for you now. May God be with you</p>
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		<title>
		By: abdulrazaq		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26426</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[abdulrazaq]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Nov 2013 21:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-26426</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I as a nigerian have not encountered the mistake you mentioned.I grew up in a community which emphasise more on communication and understanding instead of just talking, may Allah accept this as an act of worship]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I as a nigerian have not encountered the mistake you mentioned.I grew up in a community which emphasise more on communication and understanding instead of just talking, may Allah accept this as an act of worship</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jacob Thornes		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26425</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jacob Thornes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Oct 2013 12:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-26425</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26424&quot;&gt;Paul Bartlett&lt;/a&gt;.

Did no one think to respond to Paul?  He posted a year ago asking for help with his faith...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26424">Paul Bartlett</a>.</p>
<p>Did no one think to respond to Paul?  He posted a year ago asking for help with his faith&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Bartlett		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26424</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Bartlett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-26424</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Only recently did I learn of the SuhaibWebb.com website and this particular series of articles. Br. John wrote, &quot;I’ve had many discussions with apostates who were negatively affected by the Arabization/Cultural Islam phenomenon.&quot; Certainly I can relate to what he is saying.

I am now in my sixties. Many years ago, in my forties, I professed myself a Muslim in the only mosque at all close enough for me to get to with any frequency. Loud takbirs when an American would declare him/herself to be a Muslim. Otherwise? Pretty much forget it. A few dry as dust lectures full of Arabic terms and unexplained rules by someone who I sincerely think did not really understand Americans and their issues. No real effort to help a new Muslim internalize his/her Islam. Social acceptance into an overwhelmingly foreign mosque community, many of whom could not or would not speak English? Again, forget it.

For good or for ill, I personally simply could not overcome the language barrier. Period. It was a contributing factor (not the only one) as to why I eventually gave up trying to pray at all. I was just a trained parrot reciting meaningless syllables. I might as well have been reciting the Paris telephone directory in Hindi. I simply could not retain the meanings in mind at the same time I was reciting the Arabic words (and my pronunciation may have been abominable, anyway). And, of course, in addition to the tyranny of Arabic there were the cultural barriers in that mosque.

Eventually I pretty much gave up on Islam entirely (there were other factors as well which I am not going into here). For some time I attended meetings of a non-Islamic religion, although in the end I did not adopt that religion. The people were warm, friendly, and welcoming, and they spoke English!, all characteristics which the Muslims, for the most part, did not share.

Now I practice no religion, even though I still retain a vague, unexplained sort of inner &quot;resonance&quot; (for lack of a better term) toward Islam. But being now an older person who is almost completely isolated and who was never really accepted by the Muslim community and who simply could NOT get over the language problem, I don&#039;t know whether I would even make it back.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only recently did I learn of the SuhaibWebb.com website and this particular series of articles. Br. John wrote, &#8220;I’ve had many discussions with apostates who were negatively affected by the Arabization/Cultural Islam phenomenon.&#8221; Certainly I can relate to what he is saying.</p>
<p>I am now in my sixties. Many years ago, in my forties, I professed myself a Muslim in the only mosque at all close enough for me to get to with any frequency. Loud takbirs when an American would declare him/herself to be a Muslim. Otherwise? Pretty much forget it. A few dry as dust lectures full of Arabic terms and unexplained rules by someone who I sincerely think did not really understand Americans and their issues. No real effort to help a new Muslim internalize his/her Islam. Social acceptance into an overwhelmingly foreign mosque community, many of whom could not or would not speak English? Again, forget it.</p>
<p>For good or for ill, I personally simply could not overcome the language barrier. Period. It was a contributing factor (not the only one) as to why I eventually gave up trying to pray at all. I was just a trained parrot reciting meaningless syllables. I might as well have been reciting the Paris telephone directory in Hindi. I simply could not retain the meanings in mind at the same time I was reciting the Arabic words (and my pronunciation may have been abominable, anyway). And, of course, in addition to the tyranny of Arabic there were the cultural barriers in that mosque.</p>
<p>Eventually I pretty much gave up on Islam entirely (there were other factors as well which I am not going into here). For some time I attended meetings of a non-Islamic religion, although in the end I did not adopt that religion. The people were warm, friendly, and welcoming, and they spoke English!, all characteristics which the Muslims, for the most part, did not share.</p>
<p>Now I practice no religion, even though I still retain a vague, unexplained sort of inner &#8220;resonance&#8221; (for lack of a better term) toward Islam. But being now an older person who is almost completely isolated and who was never really accepted by the Muslim community and who simply could NOT get over the language problem, I don&#8217;t know whether I would even make it back.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Yaman		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26423</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yaman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 23:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-26423</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[These concepts are revolutionary. As an Arab, I&#039;m more and more dismayed and perplexed with each post I read as I realize how incredibly arrogant we&#039;ve been. To realize that the mentality of the Jews (God&#039;s-chosen-ones mindset) has crept into ours is frightening to say the least.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These concepts are revolutionary. As an Arab, I&#8217;m more and more dismayed and perplexed with each post I read as I realize how incredibly arrogant we&#8217;ve been. To realize that the mentality of the Jews (God&#8217;s-chosen-ones mindset) has crept into ours is frightening to say the least.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Arabism vs. Universal Islam		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26422</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arabism vs. Universal Islam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 23:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-26422</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Balancing Arabization Series: Part I &#124; Part II &#124; Part III &#124; Part IV &#124; Part V &#124; Part VI &#124; Part VII &#124; Part [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Balancing Arabization Series: Part I | Part II | Part III | Part IV | Part V | Part VI | Part VII | Part [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Language Argument		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26421</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Language Argument]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 12:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-26421</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] We make points using statistics that Islam is indeed not an Arab religion, but a universal message for all times, peoples and places. In many cases Imams or even laymen talk about Islam with many Arabic words and phrases without clarification, thus not getting across our message to non-Muslims. Many converts and youth leave Friday sermons confused. Pushing Arabic names on converts only adds to this confusion. Islam doesn’t seem natural and familiar to the American faith tradition; rather it seems foreign and strange and we already talked about the meaning of that hadith. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] We make points using statistics that Islam is indeed not an Arab religion, but a universal message for all times, peoples and places. In many cases Imams or even laymen talk about Islam with many Arabic words and phrases without clarification, thus not getting across our message to non-Muslims. Many converts and youth leave Friday sermons confused. Pushing Arabic names on converts only adds to this confusion. Islam doesn’t seem natural and familiar to the American faith tradition; rather it seems foreign and strange and we already talked about the meaning of that hadith. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Declaration of Faith		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26420</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Declaration of Faith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 05:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-26420</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Arabization Series: Part I &#124; Part II &#124; Part III &#124; Part IV &#124; Part V &#124; Part VI &#124; Part [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Arabization Series: Part I | Part II | Part III | Part IV | Part V | Part VI | Part [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Umm Abdullah		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26419</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Umm Abdullah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 13:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-26419</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26418&quot;&gt;Umm Abdullah&lt;/a&gt;.

I just realized I used Arabic words without translating them! Tajweed is the rules for reciting the Quran, so that one does it correctly and in a beautiful way. Tafseer refers to explanation and interpretation of the meanings of the Quran.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26418">Umm Abdullah</a>.</p>
<p>I just realized I used Arabic words without translating them! Tajweed is the rules for reciting the Quran, so that one does it correctly and in a beautiful way. Tafseer refers to explanation and interpretation of the meanings of the Quran.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Umm Abdullah		</title>
		<link>https://www.virtualmosque.com/society/dawah/should-islam-seem-foreign-in-a-non-muslim-society/#comment-26418</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Umm Abdullah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 13:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.virtualmosque.com/?p=20385#comment-26418</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Assalamu alaykum,

I know I&#039;m commenting on these articles late, but I just ran across them...

As for prayer in particular, I didn&#039;t have that much trouble learning how to pray. I had taken a basic Arabic class, so I knew a little - but what helped me was that an organization (the IPC in Kuwait, before you were there, Brother John) gave me a large paper that had boxes for each of the REQUIRED parts of the prayer. Each box had a picture showing the physical position (standing with arms crossed on chest, prostrating, etc.), with a transliteration and translation of what to say. I actually kept the paper next to me at first and glanced at it as needed, and it was just a few days before I knew what to do and say, alhamdulillah. (And gradually, I added the sunnah parts.) Now that we have the Internet, where people can actually see and hear how to do it, it should be easier.

Learning to pray is much less overwhelming, though, if you start with only the required actions. Much of what we do in the prayer is actually not required; it&#039;s recommended (and I&#039;m not suggesting that anyone stop doing it, just saying that you start with the required part and then add the rest as you can).

But as someone else said, I think some of the issues here aren&#039;t solved by requiring less Arabic. As for youth - and adults, for that matter - reciting Quran or performing actions without understanding the meaning, I don&#039;t think the answer is to forget about saying and doing it in Arabic. The answer is to encourage them to learn what they&#039;re doing and why. (Because the same situation could exist with Muslims who are Arabic speakers; just because they speak Arabic doesn&#039;t mean that they understand the Quran or dress correctly.)

I know that Brother Ederer isn&#039;t suggesting that we forget about learning Arabic, but I do think it should be emphasized that Muslims should learn Arabic. Also, we should focus on the Quran and its associated sciences; I know that for myself and many Westerners, we often read all kinds of things ABOUT Islam and the Quran, but we don&#039;t put the Quran in the center, where it should be. For example, when we learn tajweed, we actually learn how to articulate each sound, which certainly helps in pronouncing Arabic letters. And when we learn tafseer, it&#039;s amazing how it deepens our connection to the Quran (and yes, this can be done in English if one is not able to study it in Arabic).

Anyway, I&#039;m enjoying the articles and there&#039;s lots of food for thought.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assalamu alaykum,</p>
<p>I know I&#8217;m commenting on these articles late, but I just ran across them&#8230;</p>
<p>As for prayer in particular, I didn&#8217;t have that much trouble learning how to pray. I had taken a basic Arabic class, so I knew a little &#8211; but what helped me was that an organization (the IPC in Kuwait, before you were there, Brother John) gave me a large paper that had boxes for each of the REQUIRED parts of the prayer. Each box had a picture showing the physical position (standing with arms crossed on chest, prostrating, etc.), with a transliteration and translation of what to say. I actually kept the paper next to me at first and glanced at it as needed, and it was just a few days before I knew what to do and say, alhamdulillah. (And gradually, I added the sunnah parts.) Now that we have the Internet, where people can actually see and hear how to do it, it should be easier.</p>
<p>Learning to pray is much less overwhelming, though, if you start with only the required actions. Much of what we do in the prayer is actually not required; it&#8217;s recommended (and I&#8217;m not suggesting that anyone stop doing it, just saying that you start with the required part and then add the rest as you can).</p>
<p>But as someone else said, I think some of the issues here aren&#8217;t solved by requiring less Arabic. As for youth &#8211; and adults, for that matter &#8211; reciting Quran or performing actions without understanding the meaning, I don&#8217;t think the answer is to forget about saying and doing it in Arabic. The answer is to encourage them to learn what they&#8217;re doing and why. (Because the same situation could exist with Muslims who are Arabic speakers; just because they speak Arabic doesn&#8217;t mean that they understand the Quran or dress correctly.)</p>
<p>I know that Brother Ederer isn&#8217;t suggesting that we forget about learning Arabic, but I do think it should be emphasized that Muslims should learn Arabic. Also, we should focus on the Quran and its associated sciences; I know that for myself and many Westerners, we often read all kinds of things ABOUT Islam and the Quran, but we don&#8217;t put the Quran in the center, where it should be. For example, when we learn tajweed, we actually learn how to articulate each sound, which certainly helps in pronouncing Arabic letters. And when we learn tafseer, it&#8217;s amazing how it deepens our connection to the Quran (and yes, this can be done in English if one is not able to study it in Arabic).</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m enjoying the articles and there&#8217;s lots of food for thought.</p>
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