Alhamdulillah! Exactly brother! One of the underlying points of Western democracy, is the notion that world will continue to get better and that “an end of history” will approach where western liberalism is trumpiant. That the world will get better continually on and on is, I think an ideology that hides the fact the world WILL not get better. The world is continually getting worse. Yes we must not lose hope, but that does not mean we should be coerced to believing an idealistic, “kuffaric” optimism.

Yes you are quite right, in fact you nailed it on the head dear brother. Most people do not want to think about the future in pessimistic manners because it causes injury to their homely cozy liberal mindset. Like the muslims who go out of the way to promote gay marriage (an issue that I am indifferent about), thinking they are doing a great service to the world. In their mind these causes are the set point of a “wonderful” utopian world…which of course will never exist.

Sure nobody is arguing against an Islamic Renaissance, and I am certainly not advocating that we should be paranoid about the end of times, but it is fair to assess that there is serious lack of understanding and promulgation of Islamic eschlatogly.

Agreed! Certainly they are not on the same level, but they do poison the pond for the next generation to come. You do agree with me, that they each subsequent generation becomes more progressive as time goes on. I think instead of trying to hard to integrate ourselves into mainstream American society, we should not forget that they are underlying factors that we ought to be differentiating from the same exact society.

A watered-down liberalized “Prostentstantizied” Islam should not be our goal.

Beautifully said.

I also completely agree with Zai. Just like some Christians in the US whose attempt to “help along” God’s plan for the end of days as per their belief lead them to fervently support the state of Israel, I am more inclined to think, by attempting to meddle and think we know best about how to bring about God’s promise, are we perhaps making that promise come true in a way that dooms our own fates on judgment day? Or are we actually better off treating it on an FYI basis and focus on the things revealed to us with the explicit instruction of DOING them? after all, no ACTION is ordered on us in relation to all these prophecies.

I tend to suspect that if we are prepared as Muslims, if those major prophesied signs should actually come to pass in our lifetime, we would be responding correctly anyway despite not having obsessed over it for years beforehand. If we are not prepared, then realising it is imminent wouldn’t actually suddenly make us observant – it would be too late by then, we would already be among the unfortunate ones (may God preserve us all from that). Obsessing over these things takes time away from doing the things that we are actually told to DO. time that we will not get back.

There is no point obsessing over knowing exactly how to tell every sign that a hurricane might be coming just a bit closer and just a bit closer, and thereby neglect preparing to evacuate. It is enough to know that a hurricane is coming, evacuation time will roughly look like this, and spend the rest of the time in between actually preparing to be ready to evacuate AT ANY TIME.

I guess perhaps a simple means of describing the distinction as people usually mean it, is that an Islamic renaissance focuses on the fundamentals of Islam as a guide for life – priorities on monotheism, conduct to others, personal application first, etc. From this lens, two Muslim countries outwardly looking dissimilar in apparent practice might be very similar if they have a similarly strong people’s commitment to faith in God’s plan, social justice, personal autonomy/responsibility in belief, respect for others, valuing of education (in a holistic sense), women and children, and valuing of all beneficial work as potentially being worship. It’s inside first, then outwards. While supportive of a society conducive to religious practice, there is space for believers to make mistakes sometimes while ideas and life are being experienced.

Islamist renaissance can be said to prioritise the outward appearance of Islam perhaps in the belief that the created atmosphere will cultivate adherence to the rules of Islam and inspire the inner beliefs. This is not to say that this form does not prioritise the things that are mentioned above, but it holds as very important – or even more important – observable signs of Islamic commitment such as clothes, prayer attendance, loudness of prayer calls, frequency of Islamic mention in public messages and government policy, to the extent that some things like personal autonomy or privacy is considered acceptable to be curtailed. It’s premise is that outward influence should be exerted to cultivate the inner faith. The idea is to severely limit the space in which any believer might make a mistake and sin. Outwardly though, two nations looking very similar on the outside might actually be quite opposed to each other’s choice of priorities, since one of them might actually inwardly be more like the previous type (“Islamic” not “Islamist”).

As Salamu Alaikum,

I completely agree with ZAI. I used to be obsessed with this topic myself – if anything, I think its over emphasized.

There is a real fascination that goes with this topic…

Many people spend hours hunting for the signs (including me in the past), researching whether the Dajjal has been born yet, who he will be, whether the Gog and Magog are likely to come from and whether they have already arrived, how scientifically the sun may rise from the West and set in the East, etc, etc etc.

There is lots of talk about the minor signs (buildings, airplanes, wars and corruption, etc).

But at the end of the day, I’m not sure what purpose all this serves, that is not served by a fear and awareness of our own deaths and what will happen afterwards.

While an awareness of the signs is a good thing, our time is much better spent on strengthening our iman and perfecting our worship, rather than obsessing over the signs. That is what will ultimately get us through these terrible tribulations.

All that being said, reciting Sura Al-Kahf every Friday will help protect us from the Dajjal. So, its good to take what means we can.

As for avoiding the subject and Western Muslims: Please type in “Hamza Yusuf” and “end times” or “signs” on YouTube. They talk about it plenty, they’re just not obsessed with it.
I’m a Western Muslim, no where near a scholar and even I know plenty of ahadith about the signs, Dajjal, etc. because it was talked about plenty while I was growing up.

That being said, speculating about the future serves no purpose. Yes we know these things will happen and we see the signs of them approaching…but the purpose in recognizing them range from strengthening our faith to reforming ourselves. They do not exist as a blueprint to inform strategy or future planning. These things are in God’s hands and we believe in them and respond when they COME. They are in God’s hands and will happen according to HIS will.

Therefore it makes perfect sense to concentrate our energies on TODAY and on things that we where we can make a difference. Peace TODAY is good. Working for the environment TODAY is good. Helping others TODAY is good. Working to reform the economy TODAY is good.
Whether we are successful is irrelevant. We act as we’re supposed to act while believing in the qadr.

As Hassan al Basri (rahimullah) said:

“The world is 3 days: as for yesterday it has gone and all the was in it, as for tommorow you may never see it, as for today its yours so work in it”

More importantly, as our Rasulallah (S) said:

“If your are planting a sapling and see the Day of Judgement arrive, then finish planting”.

Plenty of articles have taken on the unqualified scholarship, bizarre methodology and absurd positions of the “progressives”…as well as characteristics such as hawaa, etc. Many imams have also spoken about it.

That being said Br., I think it’s inaccurate to to put them on the SAME level as the liberals, fundamentalists, and takfiris. They are not killing anyone, advocating murder, taking over countries at the point of a gun, etc. To say they are the same as the takfiris, jihadists, etc. is disingenuous.

Might not agree with Reza Aslan on some issues, but he is not at our doors with a violent mob. Nor any follower of his serving as a bodygaurd of one of our imams and then treacherously shooting him dead with other progressives then spilling into the streets to celebrate. Nor is he kicking you out of Islam because your pants are not long enough, beard not short enough or because you disagree with him.